Shock Therapy spring PN# mystery decoded

Dune-Track-N

Dune-Track-N

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Got a set of shocks this weekend and looked at the PN#s and instantly new the rates.

The #'s are all just in reverse orientation so being dyslexic finally came in handy  :dunno:

These were on a Canam X3 2-seater
Front top spring 05238 = 8" tall spring, 3" diameter, and 250lb rate
Front bottom spring 003361 = 16", 3", 300lb

That makes the front a 275lb 136lb rate till the cross-over hits and it's 300lb

Rear top spring 002321 = 12", 3", 200lb
Rear bottom spring 052361 = 16", 3", 250lb

That makes the rear a 225lb 111lb till the cross-over hits and it's 250lb

I did find it strange the front weight being higher then the rear.

IMG_2139.JPG

 
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Nice job Sherlock. 
 

Eibach puts their spring rates, lengths, etc. for their SxS spring kits in their online catalog. No mystery there and one of the reasons I bought an Eibach spring kit. 

 
With the numbers you posted . Not sure how you got the initial spring rate . 

Those numbers you posted give you a front rate @136 

rear rate @ 111 till it reaches x-over 

 
Your combined rates are off.  Rear rate is 111 over 250.  Front rate is 136 over 300.  (R1xR2)/(R1+R2)

 
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Their springs are made in China and aren't true Eibach's.

 
FOG said:
Nice job Sherlock. 
 

Eibach puts their spring rates, lengths, etc. for their SxS spring kits in their online catalog. No mystery there and one of the reasons I bought an Eibach spring kit. 
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So, do your Eibach spring kit rates match his?

 
Dune-Track-N said:
Got a set of shocks this weekend and looked at the PN#s and instantly new the rates.

The #'s are all just in reverse orientation so being dyslexic finally came in handy  :dunno:

These were on a Canam X3 2-seater
Front top spring 05238 = 8" tall spring, 3" diameter, and 250lb rate
Front bottom spring 003361 = 16", 3", 300lb

That makes the front a 275lb rate till the cross-over hits and it's 300lb

Rear top spring 002321 = 12", 3", 200lb
Rear bottom spring 052361 = 16", 3", 250lb

That makes the rear a 225lb rate over 250lb

I did find it strange the front weight being higher then the rear.

View attachment 29890
Click to expand...
Those are killer spring rates.   the lightest Eibach kits are heavier than those and you can really feel the difference.  MTS over springs the heck out of there kits.  I think they put 375lb spring on the rear of a 2 seater while my 4 seater has 300's in the rear and still to heavy.  I get the front springs needing to  be Heavier since I plow on transitions alot with softer springs.  Softer the spring to hold up the weight the smoother the ride.  Almost every sand car I have ever own was oversprung as well ,so not just a SXS issue.   Great job to figure it out.  Now people can buy good quality springs at the correct weights

 
Kraut_n_Rice said:
So, do your Eibach spring kit rates match his?
Click to expand...
Rates are different for a 2 seater stage 2 kit - Eibach is front is 250 and 250 and rear is 200 and 300 and the stage 3 kit is the same other than the rear main spring is 350.

My guess is Shock Therapy went with the heavier main front spring to help with body roll.  The front swaybar is not very stiff.  

 
Squatcher said:
Those are killer spring rates.   the lightest Eibach kits are heavier than those and you can really feel the difference.  MTS over springs the heck out of there kits.  I think they put 375lb spring on the rear of a 2 seater while my 4 seater has 300's in the rear and still to heavy.  I get the front springs needing to  be Heavier since I plow on transitions alot with softer springs.  Softer the spring to hold up the weight the smoother the ride.  Almost every sand car I have ever own was oversprung as well ,so not just a SXS issue.   Great job to figure it out.  Now people can buy good quality springs at the correct weights
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ST springs are quality springs.    

Spring kits do not provide that much ride quality improvement.  They do help with maintaining the ride height and if you have a Polaris they now convert your ride to a true dual rate set up.    The magic in ride improvement happens with the valving.

On my old X3 I did my shocks in stages so I could tell the difference with each change.  Spring kit first and that did help in the dunes, but in the dirt the ride was still bad in the chatter and small chop.  When I started getting into the valving it mad major improvements in the ride quality in all conditions. 

 
my bad on the overall rates; forgot how the math worked

image.png

 
Sand Shark said:
ST springs are quality springs.    

Spring kits do not provide that much ride quality improvement.  They do help with maintaining the ride height and if you have a Polaris they now convert your ride to a true dual rate set up.    The magic in ride improvement happens with the valving.

On my old X3 I did my shocks in stages so I could tell the difference with each change.  Spring kit first and that did help in the dunes, but in the dirt the ride was still bad in the chatter and small chop.  When I started getting into the valving it mad major improvements in the ride quality in all conditions. 
Click to expand...
Sorry but I 100% disagree.  I have had over 30 sand cars and handful of SXS.  A over sprung car will never ride as good as a car that has the correct spring rates.  YES valving does almost everything but if you start from a place that the car is over sprung you will never get to the perfect place. I always do suspension before any power adders.  Give me a can am with more than 100lbs of spring rate over what is posted and them switch to the proper springs.  YOU will find a HUGE difference.  I would even put $1000 on it. The only thing springs should do is hold up the car with 1" to 2" preload.  Robert L is a perfect example.  He had MTS put springs on his cam am. With Zero preload you couldn't get his car lower than 21" of ground clearance.  Rode like chit and was dangerous because it wanted to flip over all the time.  Softer springs and it was a new car.   I have seen it sooo many times it isn't funny.  

 
Squatcher said:
Sorry but I 100% disagree.  I have had over 30 sand cars and handful of SXS.  A over sprung car will never ride as good as a car that has the correct spring rates.  YES valving does almost everything but if you start from a place that the car is over sprung you will never get to the perfect place. I always do suspension before any power adders.  Give me a can am with more than 100lbs of spring rate over what is posted and them switch to the proper springs.  YOU will find a HUGE difference.  I would even put $1000 on it. The only thing springs should do is hold up the car with 1" to 2" preload.  Robert L is a perfect example.  He had MTS put springs on his cam am. With Zero preload you couldn't get his car lower than 21" of ground clearance.  Rode like chit and was dangerous because it wanted to flip over all the time.  Softer springs and it was a new car.   I have seen it sooo many times it isn't funny.  
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What he said. 

 
Kraut_n_Rice said:
So, do your Eibach spring kit rates match his?
Click to expand...
I bought the required springs for the Eibach stage 2 spring kit for the Honda Talon 2 seat. 
They were 150 over 250 giving 94 initial before the crossover then 250. But just as important were the increased spring lengths giving me much more adjustability for ride height and crossover points. 

 
Squatcher said:
not hard to figure out.  if running dual springs take total spring weight and split in half.  until the crossover ring kicks in.
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That’s only true if both spring rates are the same. 
The formula is one spring rate times the other spring rate divided by one spring rate plus the other spring rate. AxB/A+B. This formula works for all to give you the combined spring rate prior to crossover. 
If you have a variable spring rate that’s a whole different ball game. 

 
FOG said:
That’s only true if both spring rates are the same. 
The formula is one spring rate times the other spring rate divided by one spring rate plus the other spring rate. AxB/A+B. This formula works for all to give you the combined spring rate prior to crossover. 
If you have a variable spring rate that’s a whole different ball game. 
Click to expand...
That makes sense.  Doing numbers by just times two and devide brings up some crazy numbers.  thanks. 

 
Squatcher said:
Sorry but I 100% disagree.  I have had over 30 sand cars and handful of SXS.  A over sprung car will never ride as good as a car that has the correct spring rates.  YES valving does almost everything but if you start from a place that the car is over sprung you will never get to the perfect place. I always do suspension before any power adders.  Give me a can am with more than 100lbs of spring rate over what is posted and them switch to the proper springs.  YOU will find a HUGE difference.  I would even put $1000 on it. The only thing springs should do is hold up the car with 1" to 2" preload.  Robert L is a perfect example.  He had MTS put springs on his cam am. With Zero preload you couldn't get his car lower than 21" of ground clearance.  Rode like chit and was dangerous because it wanted to flip over all the time.  Softer springs and it was a new car.   I have seen it sooo many times it isn't funny.  
Click to expand...


What spring rates did you run on your Can Am X3?

I agree an over sprung car is not a good thing and will ride like crap.   MTS does weird stuff as they are about axle angles. They use longer springs giving you minimal adjustability.  My friend has their spring kit and they surprisingly did not have his car jacked up to the sky.  His Can Am is within the 16 1/2"-17 1/2" ride height area. I have never been a fan of the MTS set up.  

From my experience with the Can Am X3, putting on a spring kit did not drastically improve the ride quality.  It certainly helped maintain the ride height and helped with bottoming out in the dunes.  The chatter bumps still sucked as did the chop.  In the dirt it did nothing for the ride quality.  On a Polaris the spring kits helps more because they add a crossover ring giving the owner a dual rate set up.  Much better ride quality over stock.   

For the X3 valving with proper spring set up is the way to go.  It turns the X3 into a completely different handling car.   The current set up I have with Tom Morris's shock work and revisions to the valving is perfect in the dunes and desert for the way I like to drive.   

I too do suspension work first on my rides.   I have had Shock Therapy, Ed "Poundsand", and Tom Morris all do my shocks over the years.  Shock Therapy does a great job on the XP1000 and Polaris stuff.  Ed does good work, but his set up bottomed out too much in the dunes.  Tom Morris is by far the best of the bunch.   Tom's knowledge of shocks and suspension set up is well beyond the rest.  

The only other company I would trust to do suspension work on my SXS would be SDG.  

 
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dbart said:
Oh, so then they are Splings...

:bag:

:lmao:
Click to expand...
I just want to know what would be the required spring rate to bounce that guy out of here for good

 
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