R1234YF auto refrigerant, have you had an experience with this stuff?

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John@Outfront

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I'm in the auto repair industry and I'm embarrassed to say i had not had an experience with R1234Yf yet until the other day.  i had a 2017 Tacoma we were replacing a liquid line on.  some previous repair shop left a bolt out that held a bracket that held the suction hose in its place.  the hose rubbed a hole through the thin 1/4" aluminum liquid line.  no big deal right?  i order the tube and its national back order, but find a dealer that was 30 miles away in stock.  we get the tube and all done, just have to charge the system.  my nice Snap-On R134A charging station wont connect to the lines,  after a 15 min search come to find out that this new refrigerant started coming out in cars in 2000

in the US it will be required in all cars in the 2021 models and on. so yes one would need to buy an entirely different charging station to do R1234YF work.  i call the shop next to me and said yeah no problem we have the machine and can do it for you for $450  say what?  just to charge the system.  you must have your math wrong,  he said no the new refrigerant is $13.95 PER OUNCE!  the car takes 18 OZ  just over a pound.  yeah that's $251 of Freon and $168 labor to evacuate and recharge.  i about fell off my chair.  just  imagine you do a charge and still have another leak?  there goes $250 of Freon.

gone are the days where if you had  really small leak you just recharge once a year  LOL

oh and beside being ultra expensive , its flammable  yes that's right so when you get in a big car crash and there is a fire going on--just remember your Freon is fanning the flames.   yes you have an evaporator inside the cab with flammable gas

share your story

 
Yep,,,, they don't care about Us , they care about their cause....it's a cult really...they hate themselves so they want to make us suffer.....and they get re-elected every year.....

 
That's right. I replaced my own A/C Evaporator in my Civic which was a 2 day job, stealer wanted close to $3k! Same thing, tore it apart, replaced and tried to fill with the quick charge cans at O'Reilly and nope. Different connectors. What? Oh, different freon ok, well had to buy 2 cans of it on the shelf to my surprise, and have my buddy's shop charge it. They had the manual valve charging things and later found out, I could buy it, too. All in all I spent about $100 on the Evap and about $200 on the freon. 

I figured, if the barefoot dude in the middle east can bust it out, so can I. Honda really screwed us on the EVAP replacement. 

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they make adapters so you can use your regular gauge set and use a vacuum pump like the old days.  but you wouldn't want to adapt to the 134a valves and suck that stuff into your r134a recovery station.

 
Well, it was empty when it (all of them) got to you, right?...   :sraptor:

 
that new machine from snap on is like 15k 

 
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Welcome to 2022 John. Yes I use it on a daily basis.  R-1234YF has been around for a decade or more already. I haven't serviced a car with R-134 for a long while now. The days of squirting a little refrigerant in once in a while are over. The R-1234YF machines take a ridiculous amount of time to identify the refrigerant composition, recover it providing it is 100% pure, draw a 30 minute vacuum and then partial charge the system so the user can leak check the evaporator with a halogen detector first, then suck it all back out so the machine can charge it completely. It's like an hours worth of work just to perform an evac and recharge. And, you have to plug the machine into the DLC so it can record the VIN. 

Are there adapters so you can put R-1234YF fittings on your R-134 machine's hoses? Sure. But what happens when a legitimate shop tries to service a car that has cross contaminated refrigerant? They have to recover it with a dedicated recovery pump and put it into a special pressure vessel and treat it as hazardous waste, it is spendy to dispose of it. The customer pays for it in the end, I've encountered a few vehicles with contaminated refrigerant, and it wasn't cheap to make it right again, all of the rubber hoses had to be replaced as well as flushing the evap and condenser with denatured alcohol. We had to do this to get our machine to charge it, there was enough R-134 molecules still in the system to make the identifier angry when we tried to charge it. 

The moral of the story is buy a R-1234YF machine and don't ever mix the two refrigerants. Fwiw the Robinair machine is the best one out there, they're about $8500 if you can find one, otherwise there is a 6+ month wait to get one.

And just for fun, one shouldn't use a quicky charge for their EV or hybrid car that uses an electric compressor, it is possible that the PAG oil mixed in with the refrigerant in the little can will cause the powertrain module to sense high voltage leakage into the chassis and shut it down, it's called a "loss of isolation" DTC and must be cleared with a scan tool that has the ability to do so (after flushing out the contaminated ac system of course).  High voltage cars are required to use a special non conductive refrigerant oil so this doesn't occur. Beware. 

 
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Chingon619 said:
That's right. I replaced my own A/C Evaporator in my Civic which was a 2 day job, stealer wanted close to $3k! Same thing, tore it apart, replaced and tried to fill with the quick charge cans at O'Reilly and nope. Different connectors. What? Oh, different freon ok, well had to buy 2 cans of it on the shelf to my surprise, and have my buddy's shop charge it. They had the manual valve charging things and later found out, I could buy it, too. All in all I spent about $100 on the Evap and about $200 on the freon. 

I figured, if the barefoot dude in the middle east can bust it out, so can I. Honda really screwed us on the EVAP replacement. 

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Haha that looks like every other bay in our shop. Good job getting your evap in and out, some vehicles in particular are not so easy. 

 
If you are paying 13.95 an ounce for 1234YF, you are getting outrageously ripped off. Its 6.50 an ounce retail in the valley, and can be bought for less in bulk.

As to the changes, well, just like with R12, you gotta bite the bullet on that cost if you want to fix it right. 

 
KLC said:
Welcome to 2022 John. Yes I use it on a daily basis.  R-1234YF has been around for a decade or more already. I haven't serviced a car with R-134 for a long while now. The days of squirting a little refrigerant in once in a while are over. The R-1234YF machines take a ridiculous amount of time to identify the refrigerant composition, recover it providing it is 100% pure, draw a 30 minute vacuum and then partial charge the system so the user can leak check the evaporator with a halogen detector first, then suck it all back out so the machine can charge it completely. It's like an hours worth of work just to perform an evac and recharge. And, you have to plug the machine into the DLC so it can record the VIN. 

Are there adapters so you can put R-1234YF fittings on your R-134 machine's hoses? Sure. But what happens when a legitimate shop tries to service a car that has cross contaminated refrigerant? They have to recover it with a dedicated recovery pump and put it into a special pressure vessel and treat it as hazardous waste, it is spendy to dispose of it. The customer pays for it in the end, I've encountered a few vehicles with contaminated refrigerant, and it wasn't cheap to make it right again, all of the rubber hoses had to be replaced as well as flushing the evap and condenser with denatured alcohol. We had to do this to get our machine to charge it, there was enough R-134 molecules still in the system to make the identifier angry when we tried to charge it. 

The moral of the story is buy a R-1234YF machine and don't ever mix the two refrigerants. Fwiw the Robinair machine is the best one out there, they're about $8500 if you can find one, otherwise there is a 6+ month wait to get one.

And just for fun, one shouldn't use a quicky charge for their EV or hybrid car that uses an electric compressor, it is possible that the PAG oil mixed in with the refrigerant in the little can will cause the powertrain module to sense high voltage leakage into the chassis and shut it down, it's called a "loss of isolation" DTC and must be cleared with a scan tool that has the ability to do so (after flushing out the contaminated ac system of course).  High voltage cars are required to use a special non conductive refrigerant oil so this doesn't occur. Beware. 
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Jesus fawk man.  

 
Chingon619 said:
That's right. I replaced my own A/C Evaporator in my Civic which was a 2 day job, stealer wanted close to $3k! Same thing, tore it apart, replaced and tried to fill with the quick charge cans at O'Reilly and nope. Different connectors. What? Oh, different freon ok, well had to buy 2 cans of it on the shelf to my surprise, and have my buddy's shop charge it. They had the manual valve charging things and later found out, I could buy it, too. All in all I spent about $100 on the Evap and about $200 on the freon. 

I figured, if the barefoot dude in the middle east can bust it out, so can I. Honda really screwed us on the EVAP replacement. 

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View attachment 44226

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Chevy trucks is same deal gotta rip dash. I have a very slow leak right now don’t know where exactly but I’m dreading it. Really hoping it’s a seal or something else but the evap core. If so I’m gonna tackle it myself too. 

 
KLC said:
Welcome to 2022 John. Yes I use it on a daily basis.  R-1234YF has been around for a decade or more already. I haven't serviced a car with R-134 for a long while now. The days of squirting a little refrigerant in once in a while are over. The R-1234YF machines take a ridiculous amount of time to identify the refrigerant composition, recover it providing it is 100% pure, draw a 30 minute vacuum and then partial charge the system so the user can leak check the evaporator with a halogen detector first, then suck it all back out so the machine can charge it completely. It's like an hours worth of work just to perform an evac and recharge. And, you have to plug the machine into the DLC so it can record the VIN. 

Are there adapters so you can put R-1234YF fittings on your R-134 machine's hoses? Sure. But what happens when a legitimate shop tries to service a car that has cross contaminated refrigerant? They have to recover it with a dedicated recovery pump and put it into a special pressure vessel and treat it as hazardous waste, it is spendy to dispose of it. The customer pays for it in the end, I've encountered a few vehicles with contaminated refrigerant, and it wasn't cheap to make it right again, all of the rubber hoses had to be replaced as well as flushing the evap and condenser with denatured alcohol. We had to do this to get our machine to charge it, there was enough R-134 molecules still in the system to make the identifier angry when we tried to charge it. 

The moral of the story is buy a R-1234YF machine and don't ever mix the two refrigerants. Fwiw the Robinair machine is the best one out there, they're about $8500 if you can find one, otherwise there is a 6+ month wait to get one.

And just for fun, one shouldn't use a quicky charge for their EV or hybrid car that uses an electric compressor, it is possible that the PAG oil mixed in with the refrigerant in the little can will cause the powertrain module to sense high voltage leakage into the chassis and shut it down, it's called a "loss of isolation" DTC and must be cleared with a scan tool that has the ability to do so (after flushing out the contaminated ac system of course).  High voltage cars are required to use a special non conductive refrigerant oil so this doesn't occur. Beware. 
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wow  that is crazy stuff, could you imagine the first guy to identify that last issue!! yes  welcome to 2022.  i am on the outs with the car repair business as  i am 60 years old and the Outfront motorsports is clearly a better gig for me at the moment.  when and if i move closer to my home the car repair side (Accel Import Repair will go away

 
KLC said:
Haha that looks like every other bay in our shop. Good job getting your evap in and out, some vehicles in particular are not so easy. 
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i recall there are a few Mercedes that require taking the windshield out to do so.  those engineers should be shot!

 
Nvusone said:
If you are paying 13.95 an ounce for 1234YF, you are getting outrageously ripped off. Its 6.50 an ounce retail in the valley, and can be bought for less in bulk.

As to the changes, well, just like with R12, you gotta bite the bullet on that cost if you want to fix it right. 
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i didnt pay that, but the shop next door wanted to charge me that to do the job and they said go shop around as not all shops have that machine

 
John@Outfront said:
i recall there are a few Mercedes that require taking the windshield out to do so.  those engineers should be shot!
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Any German car is like a Russian troika doll.  Parts on top of parts on top of parts...  I'm fairly certain that every FSM procedure for every German car starts with: "Step 1. See section INT: Removing the Glovebox"

 
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