934 axle interference question.

[onanysunday]

So when I put this thing together 3 years ago I thought I had measured twice and cut once. Lol. Anyway the car has been running with only a quarter inch axle end play. Kartek had told me that is actually okay but I understand it is still close. My uniballs are already starting to get a little loose even with seals and grease in them. I would say the trailing arm moves back and forth maybe .010 to .015. So not much but starting to get a slight amount of play. One side apart and so far so good other than when the axle drops down against the upper clip it is rubbing on the micro stub. I did have to file each tooth to slide the outer CV off. I'm going to cut one quarter inch off one end and regroove it. I assume cut it off the inside end of the axle but not sure if that will make any difference. I don't see how this is going to be an issue long-term but wondering if it is normal.

 

[L.R.S.]

1/4" of space isn't enough, should be 1/2". Mushrooming is normal for axles, I see it a lot, even on mid-board hubs. You don't need the spiral clip groove.

 

[onanysunday]

1/4" of space isn't enough, should be 1/2". Mushrooming is normal for axles, I see it a lot, even on mid-board hubs. You don't need the spiral clip groove.

So spiral clip only at the trans side of the axle? No clip at the hub?

 

[onanysunday]

1/4" of space isn't enough, should be 1/2". Mushrooming is normal for axles, I see it a lot, even on mid-board hubs. You don't need the spiral clip groove.

Also I know you are the man to ask. Torque on the 3 bolts holding the microstub bearing to the trailing arm. Torque on the 1/2" bolts holding the 934s on. Bought those bolts from Kartek and pretty sure I remember 90lbs and red loctite. Held perfect for 3 years. Torque on all of the bolts holding the brake rotor hat to the bearing carrier. Also do you assemble dry and then squeeze grease in? I know with grease it is a circus act to get the axle with cvs up in there to start the bolts and not get grease on them or in the holes. Thanks

 

[L.R.S.]

So spiral clip only at the trans side of the axle? No clip at the hub?

The spiral clip on the trans side will help to keep the axle from pulling out of the CV on a midboard hub. The hub side spiral clip is useless because the axle cannot go further than the trans cup. 7 years on my car and never ran the outside spiral clip. 

Micro stubs are different. The spiral clip is useless. Where is the axle going to go? It's in between the CV cups. In theory if you broke a rear limit strap, or for some reason the shocks become overextended, is that little spiral clip going to hold the weight and force of the trailing arm pushing down at full extention and be able to keep the axle from pulling out of the CV? Nope. 

I've talked to a few axle manufacturers over the years and asked why they don't make the splines for the hub side an inch or two longer, or just don't groove one side. It would make it easier to know which end is which. I think RBP or TCS used to make longer splines on one end, but everyone grooves both ends.

 

[L.R.S.]

Also I know you are the man to ask. Torque on the 3 bolts holding the microstub bearing to the trailing arm. Torque on the 1/2" bolts holding the 934s on. Bought those bolts from Kartek and pretty sure I remember 90lbs and red loctite. Held perfect for 3 years. Torque on all of the bolts holding the brake rotor hat to the bearing carrier. Also do you assemble dry and then squeeze grease in? I know with grease it is a circus act to get the axle with cvs up in there to start the bolts and not get grease on them or in the holes. Thanks

I torque 1/2" CV bolts to 95ft/lb. If the parts don't come with instructions I have a torque spec sheet hanging in my shop that I refer to often.

I assemble the CVs and grease them on the bench and on the axle. It's a challenge to get them lined up and start the first bolt but I've learned to jack up the trailing arm to get it as close to parallel as possible so there is less angle on the CV making them easier to line up. 

 

[J Alper]

I also do not run spiral clips on any car with midboards, this will also makes it easy to service the car,  undo the 12 5/16 bolts and pull it off with the boot still attached and have the cap still on,  then off to the bench,  I go to 110lbs but with Red locktite on the Kartek shanked bolts, but the 7/16 bolts at 68lbs never came loose,  I find the Empi Shanked 1/2 bolts like a 11mm socket beter than the 7/16,   if some has a stuck or rounded head the Matco 11mm is tight as hell,  it really is a true 11mm , 

 

[John@Outfront]

I have never heard about omitting the outer clip. Although it seems to work for your cars I don’t think that others should try it. On my Gen 5 Funco I have 3/8” plunge at full droop. That would be with both cv pulled towards the center of the axle. I guarantee that if I removed the outer clip and then pushed in the inner cv joint towards tranny the the axle would only be 1/2 way through my outer star!  I would not take that chance at all. Too many variables to make that a habit or recommendation. It’s not about where the axle will go. It’s about having my axles 100% through the star when I am dishing out the power 

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

The spiral clip on the trans side will help to keep the axle from pulling out of the CV on a midboard hub. The hub side spiral clip is useless because the axle cannot go further than the trans cup. 7 years on my car and never ran the outside spiral clip. 

Micro stubs are different. The spiral clip is useless. Where is the axle going to go? It's in between the CV cups. In theory if you broke a rear limit strap, or for some reason the shocks become overextended, is that little spiral clip going to hold the weight and force of the trailing arm pushing down at full extention and be able to keep the axle from pulling out of the CV? Nope. 

I've talked to a few axle manufacturers over the years and asked why they don't make the splines for the hub side an inch or two longer, or just don't groove one side. It would make it easier to know which end is which. I think RBP or TCS used to make longer splines on one end, but everyone grooves both ends.

Its so funny you mention that on the hundred CV's I have serviced ...and I always put the clips in  - my thought was always that it would center the star on full droop, but in reality I am not sure it matters.. Maybe I can save 30 minutes servicing CV's... Happy day - thanks Jeff ....

 

[J Alper]

Quick Check, 

On Midboards only, I do not run the lower clips if the axle is long enought 

Quick Check 

• push the axle all the way up, 
  
• have the trailing arm at full droop, 
  
• pull the CV towards the cap, 
  
• if the axle end does not come anywhere close to the end of the CV then you do not need clips 
  

Might not also need clips if the axle is to long and the bolts holding the midboard together breaks off the spiral locks 

Also if the axle is so long it is denting the Midboard Cap, it might not need clips also 

 

[J Alper]

I feel measuring axles for midboards is different for micro stubs,   Micros - Center to Center with the axle as Stright, both cups at its closest point, take off 1/2''

Midboards  - axles should be measured at full droop, pulling the axle all the way towards the cap, the axle i feel should not come out of the hole should be about equal to the end of the cv hole,  

If you need to run clips on a midboard due to the axle coming equal or out of the CV, I feel the axle is to short, 

I have seen some cases where the the axle has no set back on a trailing arm, so it has a lot of plunge and is on a mid engine with a long trailing arm,  only once have i seen this where the axle cap needed a spacer and need a axle clip,   This was on a one off Mosebuilt chassis, 

 

[John@Outfront]

Quick Check, 

On Midboards only, I do not run the lower clips if the axle is long enought 

Quick Check 

• push the axle all the way up, 
  
• have the trailing arm at full droop, 
  
• pull the CV towards the cap, 
  
• if the axle end does not come anywhere close to the end of the CV then you do not need clips 
  

Might not also need clips if the axle is to long and the bolts holding the midboard together breaks off the spiral locks 

Also if the axle is so long it is denting the Midboard Cap, it might not need clips also 

With all that verified I would agree with no outer clip. I would think this is more the case with larger cars. Wide stance and longer than normal axles

 

[Kat-A-Tonic]

Quick Check, 

On Midboards only, I do not run the lower clips if the axle is long enought 

Quick Check 

• push the axle all the way up, 
  
• have the trailing arm at full droop, 
  
• pull the CV towards the cap, 
  
• if the axle end does not come anywhere close to the end of the CV then you do not need clips 
  

Might not also need clips if the axle is to long and the bolts holding the midboard together breaks off the spiral locks 

Also if the axle is so long it is denting the Midboard Cap, it might not need clips also 

Next time my mids have the cap off, I am going to check that.  It makes total sense.  Guess I should also release the limit straps for that check.

 

[J Alper]

Also past experience on midboards, i have had the axle to long and it came out of the CV on the Flange side, so i tried to clip both sides of the axle, and the axle broke where i clipped it, do i would not groove the inner axle, you would hit a bump and the car would feel like it went out of gear,  the stuff we do to save a buck 

 

[parker@gearone]

Not sure if it has been said yet, axle clips are also there to make sure the axle doesn't pull out a little and not have full engagement on the cv star. if the axle is only half way through the cv star and you land on the throttle it could ruin the splines.

 

[onanysunday]

I have to say at 26°, I am impressed with these lower priced Empi CVs. 3 years of hard use and only this one star started to have a slight pit and the worst wear spot. The metal is slightly indented in from wear on the other stars but no other pitting. I assume I can just flip these over and run them the other direction now. Should I put the cages back to where they have the same wear pattern? Or does it matter? Inside they wear differently on each side. As far as the axle goes I was thinking just for assembly purpose only it would be good to have that outer clip in to hold the CV in place as the assembly is going back together. Have to go at a pretty steep angle and then swing and drop it down in even with the trailing arm extended down.

 

[onanysunday]

I also do not run spiral clips on any car with midboards, this will also makes it easy to service the car,  undo the 12 5/16 bolts and pull it off with the boot still attached and have the cap still on,  then off to the bench,  I go to 110lbs but with Red locktite on the Kartek shanked bolts, but the 7/16 bolts at 68lbs never came loose,  I find the Empi Shanked 1/2 bolts like a 11mm socket beter than the 7/16,   if some has a stuck or rounded head the Matco 11mm is tight as hell,  it really is a true 11mm , 

Obviously I have micro stubs and not mid boards but just trying to picture what you are saying here. So you are pulling the hat and boot all off together. The boot just slides off of the splines. And then you put it back together the same way?

 

[Kevin]

The spiral clip on the trans side will help to keep the axle from pulling out of the CV on a midboard hub. The hub side spiral clip is useless because the axle cannot go further than the trans cup. 7 years on my car and never ran the outside spiral clip. 

Micro stubs are different. The spiral clip is useless. Where is the axle going to go? It's in between the CV cups. In theory if you broke a rear limit strap, or for some reason the shocks become overextended, is that little spiral clip going to hold the weight and force of the trailing arm pushing down at full extention and be able to keep the axle from pulling out of the CV? Nope. 

I've talked to a few axle manufacturers over the years and asked why they don't make the splines for the hub side an inch or two longer, or just don't groove one side. It would make it easier to know which end is which. I think RBP or TCS used to make longer splines on one end, but everyone grooves both ends.

tcs used to ask you how long you wanted the splines on each end when you had custom axles made. i dont know about now as they have a sketchy repuation here in havasu amongst the car crowd and the few trans builders ive talked to in town with their convertors ever since the og guy that owned it passed away.

 

[L.R.S.]

tcs used to ask you how long you wanted the splines on each end when you had custom axles made. i dont know about now as they have a sketchy repuation here in havasu amongst the car crowd and the few trans builders ive talked to in town with their convertors ever since the og guy that owned it passed away.

When I was racing Class 1 we ran TCS axles and their torque converter in the Fortin transaxle. Went to the shop many times and absolutely loved seeing all the machines running and making parts. 

Things did go downhill after the old man passed away. The mom and brothers had a falling out and one brother split to start his own shop. The parts were never the same after that.