New Harness setup

[Spills]

We ordered some new seats from PRP on Black Friday and just picked them up. I grabbed some new cam lock harnesses as well after reading the handful of forums on the subject. Well I just installed the first seat and realized that it sits much higher for the shoulder straps to go through the seat than my older ones. I realize that the ideal angle to mount the shoulder straps is around -10° to -20°. What is the concern with mounting them near vertical behind the seat to reach the cross bar? Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[RiverDave]

How much higher is the seat base than original? Can you lower the seat? It looks like it’s quite a bit taller?

only option I can think of would be to maybe weld another bar to that cross bar that is higher? Even that is kinda “meh” though

RD

 

[Grease Monkey]

Common problem going from beard seats and cars of that era to modern seats. Most just do what you've done. Seems you have enough tail on the shoulder straps to get the pads and adjusters lower on your chest. A lot of times the belts don't have enough tail to even do this. Is this proper, no but I'd bet ya if you look around next time you will see this more than not.
Suspension seats are not exactly safe either. The amount a body moves in a crash with suspension seats would scare you as well.

 

[Spills]

Ok thanks for the info guys. The seat tabs bolt to the same sliders so there was no change in seat base height. They just came taller. I had the thought of adding a bar as well but it seems kind of janky. And good to know about the body movement. I appreciate the real world advice.

 

[1tonfun]

Shoulder straps are to keep you back in the seat, not for keeping you down in the seat. The lap belt keeps you down in the seat. In a roll over, having the shoulder straps pulling you down in the seat can cause back injuries.

 

[Spills]

Shoulder straps are to keep you back in the seat, not for keeping you down in the seat. The lap belt keeps you down in the seat. In a roll over, having the shoulder straps pulling you down in the seat can cause back injuries.

Thanks. That makes sense.

 

[Rockwood]

Shoulder straps are to keep you back in the seat, not for keeping you down in the seat. The lap belt keeps you down in the seat. In a roll over, having the shoulder straps pulling you down in the seat can cause back injuries.

A head-on type crash as well since as the belt is tensioned, it will pull down on you with equal force.

What's under the fabric on the seats for the harness hole? If it's a fairly significant piece of tubing, that is effectively the "chassis" now and as long as the belt is at 0-10* ish from your shoulder to there, the compression should be minimal. If it's just fiberglass or something that would likely fail in a wreck, then yeah, you're gonna be shorter. Only thing to prevent that would be a new harness bar, but that would need padding and helmets for the back-seat occupants as it would be at face smashing level in a head on, depending on the size of your passenger...



Easiest check would be to "assume the position" above and see where they'll end up.

Unfortunately, safety decisions in multi-seat buggies are a bunch of compromises.

 

[RiverDave]

Common problem going from beard seats and cars of that era to modern seats. Most just do what you've done. Seems you have enough tail on the shoulder straps to get the pads and adjusters lower on your chest. A lot of times the belts don't have enough tail to even do this. Is this proper, no but I'd bet ya if you look around next time you will see this more than not.
Suspension seats are not exactly safe either. The amount a body moves in a crash with suspension seats would scare you as well.

There’s no way I’d run it like that.. as others said in any kinda violent crash it’s gonna compress your spine

I’d return the seats and look for something else?

 

[Grease Monkey]

There’s no way I’d run it like that.. as others said in any kinda violent crash it’s gonna compress your spine

I’d return the seats and look for something else?

I don't disagree. Whats the over/under on the OP wearing a helmet?

Safety seats, proper belt routing and helmet wearing isn't and hasn't been a priority for the majority in sand cars. Comfort and looks takes the prize. Then add seat heaters

 

[Rockwood]

There’s no way I’d run it like that.. as others said in any kinda violent crash it’s gonna compress your spine

I’d return the seats and look for something else?

If the seats have a steel frame in them, it's mitigated somewhat. 100% correct? Nope.

But yeah, unless he's getting the same seats again, that harness bar needs to be higher to be 100% correct and pass tech somewhere professional.

@Spills do you sit significantly higher in the buggy with those seats?

 

[Spills]

I don't disagree. Whats the over/under on the OP wearing a helmet?

I usually do not. My normal is goggles and a headset. I’ve been reading all of the threads and comments on the subject over the last several years and don’t disagree. I’m looking to make those changes and is the reason for the original post. This car is a “family cruiser” with the kids in booster seats in the back and I drive accordingly with them in the car.

We do, however, enjoy the occasional guys lap which is much more spirited. I’ll put in a helmet for those. And I just bought an extension cable to connect the helmet kit headset to the dash jack plug to remain on comms with the group for those rides. Now that the kids are bigger (6 and 8) with stronger necks, I’ll be moving to putting everyone in helmets.

 

[Spills]

If the seats have a steel frame in them, it's mitigated somewhat. 100% correct? Nope.

But yeah, unless he's getting the same seats again, that harness bar needs to be higher to be 100% correct and pass tech somewhere professional.

@Spills do you sit significantly higher in the buggy with those seats?

I’ll reach out to PRP to ask about their frame construction in these? Unless anybody out here knows already? They’re Comp Elite seats. I called them last week with this information and emailed them pictures. This was their response and I get it from a liability perspective:

“Thank you for sending over those pictures. Due to liability issues, we would not have a direct answer for this as far as safety goes. However, I showed the R&D guys here and they said having downward pressure is fine, but the bar is a lot lower than what we would deem normal for this type of set up. The best way would be to have the bar in line with the harness slot.“

I do sit about 2 inches higher in these seats as well, which puts my, and my passenger’s, head closer to the chassis.

 

[Rockwood]

I’ll reach out to PRP to ask about their frame construction in these? Unless anybody out here knows already? They’re Comp Elite seats. I called them last week with this information and emailed them pictures. This was their response and I get it from a liability perspective:

“Thank you for sending over those pictures. Due to liability issues, we would not have a direct answer for this as far as safety goes. However, I showed the R&D guys here and they said having downward pressure is fine, but the bar is a lot lower than what we would deem normal for this type of set up. The best way would be to have the bar in line with the harness slot.“

I do sit about 2 inches higher in these seats as well, which puts my, and my passenger’s, head closer to the chassis.

Any way you can exchange? Doesn’t seem worth all the effort unless you have unusually tall tabs on the chassis (allowing you to quickly cut them off and replace with shorter).

 

[Spills]

There are seat sliders installed in the front 2 seats. I could cut off horizontal tabs and remove the seat sliders, and mount the seat to fixed vertical tabs, but I do like the ability to have the wife be able to jump in, slide the seat forward, and be able to drive. I could probably gain my 2" back by doing that. (I can get pictures tomorrow if that doesn't make sense). It seems like just as much work as welding a random tube to mount the shoulder straps to tho.
Lets see what PRP says tomorrow as well.
Thanks for all the input. I do appreciate the knowledge and experience that comes from this site.

 

[WheresHotBoat]

Have you sat in the car yet? I bought some seats once for my Baja, they bolted right in, but looked exactly like this, much taller than the original PRP's I had in the car. It wasn't just the back that was taller, it was the entire base of the seat as well. Made me sit way to high, and the wheel was way to close to my legs.
I ended up ordering new seats, that had the same dimension all the way around as my old seats, and then just sold the high ones.

 

[Spills]

Yes and I have the save problem with the wheel as well.