VW, J Series, or Ecotec

[trumanbuckley1]

Hello all, I have recently acquired what I believe to be an old Sand Limo beam car that is a brand new (from the pistons in) turbo 2276 VW that I built. It has an old CB Performance 4 dial fuel injection setup and a locked distributor. It builds boost really slow and doesn't quite seem to have the power I want it to. My current ideas of how to move forward on it are to either switch ECU's and go to a Microsquirt and see if new tech can dial the fueling in and make it run better, other idea is to swap engines and put either a 2.2 Ecotec or a 3.X J series Honda engine in it and have good reliable power. The reasoning for going Ecotec is I can most likely acquire a whole car with harness/ecm and engine for free, and I have a line on a J35 for $300. Just curious if anyone else has had a similar situation and swapped engines. Thanks in advance!

 

[Poule43]

The Honda motor (no turbo) is a great option ! Reliable and priced right! I love the Honda J3A motors

 

[Jtmoney714]

Honda will fit a little easier than the ecotec. Honda will push that car real well.

 

[Ganzo]

Sell your motor go j3x. That the best thing i ever did on my car

 

[MPC]

When I bought my buggy, it had a VW 1835. Fun, but messing with carbs got old real fast. I put in an Ecotec 2.2. Much better with the fuel injection and a noticeable increase in power. Never had to stop and let the engine cool like I would with the air cooled engine. I extended my rear cage about 4 inches if I remember correctly to fit it and added engine mounts. Mounted a radiator of course. I ran that for a couple of seasons, but for the dunes I needed more power. There were some hills where the Ecotec struggled.

I switched to the Honda V6, j35 last summer. Much, much better. The buggy finally has the power it needs and I would now never recommend the Ecotec over the Honda. It's about an extra 100 hp for about an extra 50-60 pounds of engine weight compared the the Ecotec. It fit in the same space as the Ecotec; I didn't need to modify the engine cage this time. With either you will need to find a place for a radiator that gets good air flow.
I needed to flip the intake on the Honda engine to face the rear or the buggy, otherwise my air cleaner would be in conflict with my gas tank.

What transaxle do you have? Keeping it or upgrading?

 

[Rockwood]

J series all the way. Do yourself a favor and merge the collectors from each side: sounds like a tractor otherwise, and you'll definitely hear it. They're not quiet engines in buggy form without a lot of muffler.

 

[trumanbuckley1]

When I bought my buggy, it had a VW 1835. Fun, but messing with carbs got old real fast. I put in an Ecotec 2.2. Much better with the fuel injection and a noticeable increase in power. Never had to stop and let the engine cool like I would with the air cooled engine. I extended my rear cage about 4 inches if I remember correctly to fit it and added engine mounts. Mounted a radiator of course. I ran that for a couple of seasons, but for the dunes I needed more power. There were some hills where the Ecotec struggled.

I switched to the Honda V6, j35 last summer. Much, much better. The buggy finally has the power it needs and I would now never recommend the Ecotec over the Honda. It's about an extra 100 hp for about an extra 50-60 pounds of engine weight compared the the Ecotec. It fit in the same space as the Ecotec; I didn't need to modify the engine cage this time. With either you will need to find a place for a radiator that gets good air flow.
I needed to flip the intake on the Honda engine to face the rear or the buggy, otherwise my air cleaner would be in conflict with my gas tank.

What transaxle do you have? Keeping it or upgrading?

I have what I assume is a built 002, the gears seem very close ratio and with how it seems the original builder spent money on the car I'd be surprised if it was stock. Planning on keeping it but I also have multiple spare 002 and 091 amongst the family I can get easily. Going off the tape I should be able to squeeze the 3.5 in the cage that it currently has and probably remove my cooler rack area to squeeze in a Grand Cherokee radiator. I have a tunnel buggy with a 1967cc and a Chenowth style buggy with a 2180cc, I love both but this car seems like it would want the extra power from a new age engine. I don't think I'd have problems fitting the intake on the 3.5 but maybe, definitely no issue with the ecotec.

 

[trumanbuckley1]

My tunnel buggy. Also, I'm located in Kansas and 99% of my riding will be done at Little Sahara Oklahoma, not Glamis or St Anthony's. Best I can tell is our riding still has more straight line hill climbs and driving through partially wooded trails as opposed to long, bowling motions that it seems those places have.

Here's a link to one of our more recent trips and the riding style we do!

 

[Crusty]

My tunnel buggy. Also, I'm located in Kansas and 99% of my riding will be done at Little Sahara Oklahoma, not Glamis or St Anthony's. Best I can tell is our riding still has more straight line hill climbs and driving through partially wooded trails as opposed to long, bowling motions that it seems those places have.

Here's a link to one of our more recent trips and the riding style we do!
View attachment 152507

Cool vids and pic of the tunnel...love that stuff, thanks for sharing and good luck on the motor conversion to a J3X....that's the ticket it seems.

 

[Rockwood]

I have what I assume is a built 002, the gears seem very close ratio and with how it seems the original builder spent money on the car I'd be surprised if it was stock. Planning on keeping it but I also have multiple spare 002 and 091 amongst the family I can get easily. Going off the tape I should be able to squeeze the 3.5 in the cage that it currently has and probably remove my cooler rack area to squeeze in a Grand Cherokee radiator. I have a tunnel buggy with a 1967cc and a Chenowth style buggy with a 2180cc, I love both but this car seems like it would want the extra power from a new age engine. I don't think I'd have problems fitting the intake on the 3.5 but maybe, definitely no issue with the ecotec.

Grand Cherokee radiator will be narrow/tall. Cherokee radiator is wide/short (35x11) with lots of fan shroud options.

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

The J35 will likely eat up the 002. I'd suggest building the 091 and swapping them at the same time.

 

[MPC]

Cherokee radiator is wide/short (35x11) with lots of fan shroud options.

This is what I'm using on mine. It hasn't had a problem keeping the Honda cool, but it also gets pretty good air flow compared to some other set ups I've seen, like a more tilted or even horizontal mounting.

 

[MPC]

The J35 will likely eat up the 002. I'd suggest building the 091 and swapping them at the same time.

I agree. Also be aware that the 002 and 091 are slightly different lengths, so if you're thinking to just run the 002 until it breaks and then put in the 091, you may end up redoing your engine mounts (or your shifter length).

I ran an 002 with my Ecotec without issues, but switched to an 091 with the stock Honda. I sold the 002 to a friend of my son's for his Ecotec conversion and he fried it pretty quickly. But he's a teenager and drives like it.

 

[trumanbuckley1]

The J35 will likely eat up the 002. I'd suggest building the 091 and swapping them at the same time.

What classifies as a "built" transmission to you? I'll be running worn STU Blaster 33's for a while so I shouldn't be getting too much bite. For pulling up to the bottom of a hill and launching off to climb them I'll use my other buggies, I'm intending this one to be more so for putting the wife and kid in and cruising the dunes and maybe the occasional drag race.

 

[daveH]

before changing motors, DEFINITELY get rid of the old CB system. total DINOSAUR with no real tuneability.

as for building boost....the ECU cant help much with that. its entirely mechanical. so either your turbo is an ancient piece to, or its worn out, or you have leaks in your system or the sizing is wrong. this needs to be addressed as the ECU can not "command" the turbo to make boost. the only thing your ECU (not that old dinosaur you have anyways) do is open the gate to slow the turbo. thats it.

plenty of turbo VW's out there that make good power.

 

[trumanbuckley1]

before changing motors, DEFINITELY get rid of the old CB system. total DINOSAUR with no real tuneability.

as for building boost....the ECU cant help much with that. its entirely mechanical. so either your turbo is an ancient piece to, or its worn out, or you have leaks in your system or the sizing is wrong. this needs to be addressed as the ECU can not "command" the turbo to make boost. the only thing your ECU (not that old dinosaur you have anyways) do is open the gate to slow the turbo. thats it.

plenty of turbo VW's out there that make good power.

And I understand that the ECU has no mechanical control over the creation of boost. My main thought as to why it's having issues is it's pig rich (11.X AFR) at WOT and I don't want to keep messing with trying to tune it in as it seems like a silly system. I assume it's super lazy on building boost due to being so rich. When I first got the buggy put back together it had a CB Black Box on it and it was killing the ignition when it would switch from vacuum to boost. Makes me question if anything else in the dated system is wrong as well.

 

[daveH]

And I understand that the ECU has no mechanical control over the creation of boost. My main thought as to why it's having issues is it's pig rich (11.X AFR) at WOT and I don't want to keep messing with trying to tune it in as it seems like a silly system. I assume it's super lazy on building boost due to being so rich. When I first got the buggy put back together it had a CB Black Box on it and it was killing the ignition when it would switch from vacuum to boost. Makes me question if anything else in the dated system is wrong as well.

yep as stated that system is a JOKE. sure having fuel and timing correct will help the turbo "do its thing". you will NEVER get there with that 4 knob system.

not trying to talk you out of changing motors. but going from air cooled to water cooled is no easy task. hence the reason i suggest getting it running right first and then decide if its not the power level you want.

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

What classifies as a "built" transmission to you? I'll be running worn STU Blaster 33's for a while so I shouldn't be getting too much bite. For pulling up to the bottom of a hill and launching off to climb them I'll use my other buggies, I'm intending this one to be more so for putting the wife and kid in and cruising the dunes and maybe the occasional drag race.

You'll probably want to lower the gear ratios, primary 1-4 and the R&P, so you're not just using 1st and 2nd.

 

[trumanbuckley1]

yep as stated that system is a JOKE. sure having fuel and timing correct will help the turbo "do its thing". you will NEVER get there with that 4 knob system.

not trying to talk you out of changing motors. but going from air cooled to water cooled is no easy task. hence the reason i suggest getting it running right first and then decide if its not the power level you want.

I very much appreciate the input! I've done some stuff with LS swaps (carbureted SBC to LS) so I don't think the wiring/ecu part should be a big deal, fabrication is also not an issue as whatever I'm not proficient at my dad has built many rails over the years! His input on the whole thing is to ditch the FI and go to carbs but I'm too new school and want to try something different. He recently installed a 2005 Yamaha R1 engine in a Sand Sprite and it's been going good for many trips now with no issues! He also has manufactured his own flywheel and adapter plate to fit a 3.5 Isuzu engine into my uncles buggy. Very time consuming and tedious though.

 

[Rockwood]

And I understand that the ECU has no mechanical control over the creation of boost. My main thought as to why it's having issues is it's pig rich (11.X AFR) at WOT and I don't want to keep messing with trying to tune it in as it seems like a silly system. I assume it's super lazy on building boost due to being so rich. When I first got the buggy put back together it had a CB Black Box on it and it was killing the ignition when it would switch from vacuum to boost. Makes me question if anything else in the dated system is wrong as well.

11.x on an air cooled turbo motor sounds correct. You don't want to run much into the 12s even on a modern water cooled motor with better mixture/quench/cooling.