Built turbo Honda do's and don'ts

JM PRO

JM PRO

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Had a couple board members reach out with some questions concerning my build and thought I would share my experience and hope others will share. Unlike the LS world where there are multiple engine builder resources, we Honda guys don't have much.

I unfortunately have had my fair share of engine failures. They were all preventable.

My first 2 engine failures came from the same issue. I was running a stock engine, aem ecu, 1000cc injectors, E85 and larger fuel lines. 8.5 pounds of boost is all I was pushing. Melted a piston on the second trip. Turns out the stock fuel rails don't flow enough especially using the stock crossover hose. You need aftermarket fuel rails with a proper wye split to give both rails equal pressure. E85 burns 30+% more fuel on top of what extra fuel is needed for the boost setting.

I now run fuel rails from P2R performance with a -8 fuel line to distribution block and -6 to fuel rails.

I have also experienced 2 head gasket failures. Both failures were with Felpro head gaskets. I have spoke with a couple different Honda gurus and they were very clear to never use Felpro. I have since used the factory Honda gasket and so far no issues. The gurus also mentioned Cometic gaskets as a good choice as well but I have not used them yet.

I will continue to add to this thread and encourage anyone to add any helpful info to help our Honda guys looking to upgrade their engines.

 
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Sounds like common sense but if buying forged pistons just plan on buying the oversized ones and having the block bored to the spec that is provided with the pistons.

I checked the bore before ordering pistons and thought they were GTG. It was mid season and I was rushing to get the car back together. I ordered the pistons and did a ball hone finish. As I was setting up ring gap, I discovered the cylinders had a slight taper towards the bottom of the cylinder. Roughly .003-.004" larger at bottom of cylinders. More experienced builders with better measuring devices would of caught it or just known better. I made the call to stop and have the case machined and take off the bare minimum so I could still use the pistons. 

I was able to still use the pistons I bought and engine runs strong just Noisy at start up when cold and I  get more than typical crank case pressure.

 
Don't waste your money on the Halferland Hyper pistons. They are just a cheap cast stock knock off.

Forged pistons are just a few bucks more.

Just my personal take on suppliers but Halferland is a small shop with near zero experience with sandrails or engines in our sport.

I have had very good luck with P2R. Chris at P2R has been very helpful on a couple occasions.

 
Tuners:

Crucial part of the process is finding a good tuner. I have used 2 tuners for my engine package so far. 

The first tuner was John at Outfront. I live 15 minutes from his shop and I am a huge fan of John and his team. I asked him if he could tune AEM and Honda. John was very clear he is not familiar with AEM but can tune it. He was very clear in communication and expectations and I have zero negative feedback to say of my experience with Outfront. In fact I had a bad crank position sensor and holy chit it was pure hell figuring out what it was (horror story). It was on and off John's dyno for 2 separate days and he even let me work on it at his shop including borrowing tools. At the end of the ordeal, he was beyond fair on the price considering how long I was there. He was finally able to tune the car and it ran well other than being miserable to start when cold. 

Next tuner was Erick from Ericks racing in Baldwin Park. He was double the money but the dude only does AEM and nearly all Honda. He was easy to work with and added a wide band O2. He has 2 Hub dynos, one is for all wheel drive cars (pretty cool). The cold start is now nearly gone and the car purrs like a kitten. I was expecting him to turn on more safety features within the software. If the car ever goes back to him I would review those features.

Share your tuners experience

 
Any Japanese motor should almost always use stock gaskets/seals everywhere. They’re cheap and generally either better, or in the case of some head gaskets, close enough. 

 
In Terms of Tuning, Make sure you use someone that is reputable in the off road industry! Just because someone can tune for the street or strip, does not mean they can tune for desert/sand conditions. I used Bisi moto in Ontario and it cost me an engine. He put so much timing in the tune that it detonated after 20 minutes into my first ride. Made a rod look like a question mark.

After having the block built I took it to Dardan in Santee. He is very knowledgeable especially in the Honda/Off road scene. He tunes everything and his very solid. He can make great power but also have a very safe tune. He is also very well versed in AEM and Holley.

For Pistons, I used Wiseco. They were just released when I was having my block built. They are .5 bigger than the OEM bore so Waynes in riverside did open up the block. My builder was also pretty generous on the ring gap so I do get some piston slap when its cold but he did build the block for boost so I think its one of those give and takes.

I agree on the statement regarding Halferland. While his parts look nice, I have more trust in P2R. I am running their rods and my builder mentioned how beefy they were.

 
This is already an amazing thread, I want to build out my Honda in the future, I really like the platform.  I think C&G tuned my Honda back in the day, AEM Computer, stock motor with Turbo.  Runs strong with zero issues, doesn't even use Oil after many years.

My only issues is, with E85, I am changing out my Fuel filters every 15 days of duning, they get dirty fast.

 
Cool thread, i'll definitely be following along with the new project Alumicraft I have in the garage. It has a big turbo and apparently was putting 390 to the tire before the motor detonation. I'll be replacing the motor with a junkyard motor and potentially just ditching the turbo for now, and then building another motor for the turbo package and put it on later. It has an AEM in it as well. 

ChasingSand said:
In Terms of Tuning, Make sure you use someone that is reputable in the off road industry! Just because someone can tune for the street or strip, does not mean they can tune for desert/sand conditions. I used Bisi moto in Ontario and it cost me an engine. He put so much timing in the tune that it detonated after 20 minutes into my first ride. Made a rod look like a question mark.

After having the block built I took it to Dardan in Santee. He is very knowledgeable especially in the Honda/Off road scene. He tunes everything and his very solid. He can make great power but also have a very safe tune. He is also very well versed in AEM and Holley.

For Pistons, I used Wiseco. They were just released when I was having my block built. They are .5 bigger than the OEM bore so Waynes in riverside did open up the block. My builder was also pretty generous on the ring gap so I do get some piston slap when its cold but he did build the block for boost so I think its one of those give and takes.

I agree on the statement regarding Halferland. While his parts look nice, I have more trust in P2R. I am running their rods and my builder mentioned how beefy they were.
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This is a very good note. I just had my LS3 tuned by Powertrain Dynamics and he mentioned that a lot of the cars he sees come in from other tuners have a lot of timing in them and don't account for potential pinging through the rev ranges. A vast majority of LS offroad cars aren't using knock sensors and there is a section of the higher rev range that tends to ping and if you don't make the adjustment in the timing, you could lose a motor. 

 
ChasingSand said:
In Terms of Tuning, Make sure you use someone that is reputable in the off road industry! Just because someone can tune for the street or strip, does not mean they can tune for desert/sand conditions. I used Bisi moto in Ontario and it cost me an engine. He put so much timing in the tune that it detonated after 20 minutes into my first ride. Made a rod look like a question mark.

After having the block built I took it to Dardan in Santee. He is very knowledgeable especially in the Honda/Off road scene. He tunes everything and his very solid. He can make great power but also have a very safe tune. He is also very well versed in AEM and Holley.

For Pistons, I used Wiseco. They were just released when I was having my block built. They are .5 bigger than the OEM bore so Waynes in riverside did open up the block. My builder was also pretty generous on the ring gap so I do get some piston slap when its cold but he did build the block for boost so I think its one of those give and takes.

I agree on the statement regarding Halferland. While his parts look nice, I have more trust in P2R. I am running their rods and my builder mentioned how beefy they were.
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Darden has tuned most of the buggies in my camp. Dude is perfectly willing to remote into a buggy while eating dinner to help clean something up after someone switched something out. Super standup guy.

 
This is good timing as I just picked up a spare Honda that I’m going to build for a turbo

my current motor is stock running a t3t4 turbo with intercooler and 8 lbs boost on a stock motor with a mega squirt ECM I think that is the brand, it has been Dynoed in Santee at the Dyno shop put 350 at the wheels i run 50/50 race gas and premium and I have no intentions. Of running E85 just to many issues for the cost savings.

I have been helping my brother with his 2 race cars that run E85 using a hydrometer to confirm the real percentage of alcohol coming out of the pump we have found as little as 40% out of an E85 pump and he can’t run safely on that percentage.

so back to my build I know I’m on borrowed time with the stock j35 so on to my questions

Wiseco offer pistons with different compression ratios but they don’t get below 10 to 1 or there about I always thought 8 to 1 was better in a turbo motor?

Pauter makes steel rods and titanium rods why run 1 over the other 

I want to run about 12 lbs of boost but I’m going to keep my current turbo setup i like how the boost comes in early and does not require down shifting to accelerate 

the car weighs 1800 with me in it and has a 2d transmission 

 
Arch Stanton said:
This is good timing as I just picked up a spare Honda that I’m going to build for a turbo

my current motor is stock running a t3t4 turbo with intercooler and 8 lbs boost on a stock motor with a mega squirt ECM I think that is the brand, it has been Dynoed in Santee at the Dyno shop put 350 at the wheels i run 50/50 race gas and premium and I have no intentions. Of running E85 just to many issues for the cost savings.

I have been helping my brother with his 2 race cars that run E85 using a hydrometer to confirm the real percentage of alcohol coming out of the pump we have found as little as 40% out of an E85 pump and he can’t run safely on that percentage.

so back to my build I know I’m on borrowed time with the stock j35 so on to my questions

Wiseco offer pistons with different compression ratios but they don’t get below 10 to 1 or there about I always thought 8 to 1 was better in a turbo motor?

Pauter makes steel rods and titanium rods why run 1 over the other 

I want to run about 12 lbs of boost but I’m going to keep my current turbo setup i like how the boost comes in early and does not require down shifting to accelerate 

the car weighs 1800 with me in it and has a 2d transmission 
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Compression just changes effective timing. 10:1 is a bit high, but can be compensated for in the tune. 

 
Arch Stanton said:
This is good timing as I just picked up a spare Honda that I’m going to build for a turbo

my current motor is stock running a t3t4 turbo with intercooler and 8 lbs boost on a stock motor with a mega squirt ECM I think that is the brand, it has been Dynoed in Santee at the Dyno shop put 350 at the wheels i run 50/50 race gas and premium and I have no intentions. Of running E85 just to many issues for the cost savings.

I have been helping my brother with his 2 race cars that run E85 using a hydrometer to confirm the real percentage of alcohol coming out of the pump we have found as little as 40% out of an E85 pump and he can’t run safely on that percentage.

so back to my build I know I’m on borrowed time with the stock j35 so on to my questions

Wiseco offer pistons with different compression ratios but they don’t get below 10 to 1 or there about I always thought 8 to 1 was better in a turbo motor?

Pauter makes steel rods and titanium rods why run 1 over the other 

I want to run about 12 lbs of boost but I’m going to keep my current turbo setup i like how the boost comes in early and does not require down shifting to accelerate 

the car weighs 1800 with me in it and has a 2d transmission 
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I am running the Wiseco pistons under boost and have not had any issues. Like rockwood said, its all in the tune.

In terms of Rods, I think the only reason to run titanium would be for weight savings but not sure the price point is worth it. I know many people running the P2R rods with zero issues. I have not heard of any issues with them.

With out running E85 you are probably going to have to run pure race gas and have it tuned for that. I went to E85 and while the upfront cost (Changing Lines, Injectors, ETC) is pricey, the cost of fuel is cheap and my local station has always been 90+ percent ethanol.

I am on my second season with 500WHP (10LBS) mated to a 2D and no trans issues to speak of. I dont beat on the car and I shift it nicely, not banging gears.

 
What do you guys think about spraying 100% meth (as apposed to 50/50 meth/water) while under boost to compensate for the lack of octane when running pump gas?

 
EastMT said:
What do you guys think about spraying 100% meth (as apposed to 50/50 meth/water) while under boost to compensate for the lack of octane when running pump gas?
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there was a LOT of discussion about this over on the turbo Rustang website a while ago (quite a while ago) & bottom line.......... 50/50 is the only way to go.  it was tested over & over again.

https://www.theturboforums.com/forums/

 
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I've only used Erik's racing for tuning the j35. The last tune was perfect with cold starts. The car was a nightmare to start when ambient temps were below 80 degrees. His hub dynos were the biggest limiting factor, we were exceeding the torque limits. We run E85 12 Ibs of boost on a low setting and 21 Ibs on high. The block is sleeved with forged rods and pistons.

CP pistons, Brian Crower rods,

 
Hammond_fab said:
I've only used Erik's racing for tuning the j35. The last tune was perfect with cold starts. The car was a nightmare to start when ambient temps were below 80 degrees. His hub dynos were the biggest limiting factor, we were exceeding the torque limits. We run E85 12 Ibs of boost on a low setting and 21 Ibs on high. The block is sleeved with forged rods and pistons.

CP pistons, Brian Crower rods,
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He never tuned V8s?   Even at 21lbs on a J35 you weren't in NA big block territory for torque.

 
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